Friday, February 22, 2008

Worship Fallacies (Part 4)

Here is part of a comment from a member of the OP's church:

"With 10-15 min for worship and 15 -20 min for service I personally hardly feel as if I have ever been given the chance to bask in the glory of my savior."

This is closely related to the first couple of posts (I suggest you read Part 1, Part 2 & Part 3 of this discussion), but goes even deeper into the reason why the OP feels that it is OK to usurp his pastor's authority...people are unhappy with the worship time at church on Sunday morning. But, is the unhappiness due to the quality/quantity of the worship time at church, or could it also be related to something else?



CFHusband said...

"With 10-15 min for worship and 15 -20 min for service I personally hardly feel as if I have ever been given the chance to bask in the glory of my savior."

I'll be honest, it would be easy to read into this that the commenter is saying that Sunday morning is the only time he/she does this basking. But, I'm not willing to go that far.

But, it does beg the question, why do people complain about 1/2 a percent of their week (a one hour worship service on Sunday morning compared to the 168 hours in a week). Yes, it's an important hour, maybe one of the few every week we have to worship with other believers in such a unique way...but is it really worth complaining about? And if we do think it is worth the complaint, what might that say our lives the 167 hours we're not at church?

Rick Lawrenson said...

If a worship leader is that miffed because he/she didn't have a chance to bask in the glory of the savior...
1. Is worship basking in His glory or giving Him glory?
2. If it takes 10-15 minutes to shift into worship gear, it indicates a lack of being in an attitude of worship leading up to the "official" hour. I'd suggest you start worshipping Sunday morning as soon as you get out of bed. That way you're already into it, and leading others to where you are.
3. Again, WL, is the worship time about you or about the One you're supposed to be worshipping?

triprolo said...

I am aware of the post. I have read it myself at the website. And I will say two things.

1. This is purely gossip. Even though you are making no comment, you are putting this on your blog with a hopeful heart for building a team to agree with you. I think this is wrong to blog about a post and use the posters words without the posters consent.

2. I sometimes agree with what you say sometimes, but sometimes Nate, you can be a down right jerk on that site. I have experienced it myself. You are one of the reasons I don't visit those forums very often.

3. I think you have taken her comments and construed them. Not on this blog but on the other site. Another reason I have any kinda blogs or forums is the very simple reason you can "read" into statements that were never meant that way. She said some things that were questionable, but I think her heart was in the right place. She just said it wrong.

TerryKM said...

Looking past addressing the "worship isn't just music" which has been addressed in a separate post. . .I'm hearing the desire to create a musical climax as if the music is a separate piece of the church gathering and not a part of it. It sounds rather competitive with the rest of the components of the gathering.

Next, "bask in the glory of my savior". . .is it just me or is there something very inherently wrong what that statement.

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but this guy/gal is totally missing what worship is, which is sad, given the position he's/she's in.

@ Nate. . .Are the church members really unhappy with the worship as it is or could this just be his/her perception? I'm hearing so much "self" in these statements that I can't help but imagine how inaccurately this person may be seeing him/her-self and the situation.

CFHusband said...


Not sure how your comments add anything to our discussion here, or exactly who you are, but thanks anyway.

Unfortunately, I can't control what other people think about me, although I am mindful about how I say things and why I say them and who I'm saying them to...but, people will form their own opinions based on their own situations and personalities.

I'm not hoping to build a team to agree with me...I certainly wasn't in the minority in my opinions and advice to the OP. I'm hoping to break down some very common church issues, using this specific example, which was placed in public for anyone to read, so that we might better understand the misconceptions and issues that surround worship and church leadership.

I know you probably don't care about any of what I just said, since you've already formed your opinion about me, but I thought I'd try.

Anonymous said...

Sometimes I agree with you. Sometimes I don't. I just think it was wrong to blog about it. Some of your statements on the site were very angry. Like I said. I think the way she said some of those things were definitely questionable. But people took those comments and ran away with them. Which seems to happen quite often on that site. The very reason I don't visit very much. I value the opinions on that site. It's just hard to "read" love or mercy or any other emotion into a post. So it is easy to read into a post what people want.

I care what you think. That's why I am subscribed to your blog. I just think in forums, there needs to be reserve before just trashing the person on what they say or how they worded it. There are all levels of maturity on that site. Try to keep that in mind when you bash someone for how they worded things.

I experienced major bashing when I posted 7 Habits of leadership. Man, I got trashed. I thought it would be a good idea to discuss those things, but I was wrong. I have been on that site for a long time just as you have. I agree with some things that are said on there. But it seems there is alot of beatings and trashing going on there. And it ticks me off.


CFHusband said...


Unfortunately, the OP created a ton of confusion with his/her communication skills (or lack of), from the beginning of that thread to the end (when his/her comments were deleted). I, and most others, responded (our message was the same, although I said it with more emotion and without the ruffles) based on the info he/she gave, and, unfortunately, by the time it was realized that maybe the OP had not painted a clear picture, the whole story had become a big confusing mess.

I stand by everything I said on that thread, and I reserve the right to come across as hardcore (you say "angry") when people who should know better say and are about to do really really stupid things. Everything I say I say in love, and, again, some people can't deal with that, which is unfortunate, but reality.

I agree with you that there are a lot of people on that site who come across as seriously mean and just like to debate and trash each other, but most of that takes place in the "theo" section, which I never even look at much less comment in (I did a long time ago, but got sick of it as well). But, that is reality, and I simply choose to avoid all interaction with the people I know grate me the wrong way.